INTERVIEW | From Burnout to Breakthrough: Erin Bradley’s No-Fluff Formula for Mortgage & Life Mastery

Ready to flip the script on burnout and take back your freedom? In this energizing episode of Mortgage, Markets, and More, Erin Bradley—author, speaker, and founder of Pursuing Freedom—shares how she went from riding her bike to client meetings with maxed-out credit cards to building a scalable, heart-centered mortgage business. 💥

Erin opens up about the power of relationship-first strategies, why being "salesy" is NOT the path to success, and how lenders and realtors can thrive through empathy, systems, and a true Go-Giver mindset. 🚴‍♀️💼 Discover why structure = freedom, how to create referral ecosystems that actually work, and what every self-employed pro needs to hear in 2025. 🔑

If you're ready to stop winging it and start designing a business that fuels your life—not drains it—this is a must-listen. 💡🔥

Connect with Erin!

• YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram: @PursuingFreedomOfficial
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erin-bradley/
• 5 Step Guide: www.pursuingfreedom.com/5-step-guide

#MortgageFreedom #GoGiverMindset #RealEstateRevolution #ReferralMarketing #BurnoutRecovery #LoanOfficerLife #RealtorTips #BusinessByDesign #PursuingFreedom #MortgageMondays

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Peter D'Angelo | NMLS: 885309 | Branch Manager | Guaranteed Rate, Inc., NMLS 2611
Peter.DAngelo@Rate.com

*All information, topics, discussion is my own personal opinion and insight, not reflective of Guaranteed Rate, Inc. May contain market information for informational purposes only, not to be used as financial advice.

Transcript

Podcast_INTERVIEW-ErinBradley

[00:00:00] 

​ [00:01:00] Erin, it's so great to meet you. Thank you for coming on.

Thanks for having me, Peter. I'm really excited.

My pleasure. So for our listeners, if you could give us all just a a thousand foot view of Erin Bradley and everything that you do.

Sure. So, um, the CliffNotes version is that, I joke, I was not rookie of the year when I fell into the mortgage space in oh six and went a hundred percent commission in oh seven, like a genius right before the market crashed. And I, I did take that leap because I thought I wanted some freedom and flexibility.

I, I'm a bit of a free spirit and after college I lived in Spain for a couple years and kayaked to the coast of Mexico. And I got the bug, I got the wanderlust and I thought, okay, well self-employment is the way to go because I want the freedom and flexibility to work from anywhere to travel, all these things.

So I take the leap and I do so with no financial safety net, no game plan, no systems, no confidence, and honestly. Even though I'm an extrovert, I was [00:02:00] terrified of being seen as salesy. And a lot of the training that I was given specifically as a lender, like go to real estate offices with rate sheets and cookies, that's what they would tell me.

I was like, no, I am a hard pass on that. So I, within a year I had fallen flat on my face. I was tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt by the summer of 2008, and I was maxed out on all my credit cards. I got a referral for a new client and I had to ride my bike five miles across town in the middle of summer to meet the client because I didn't have enough money for gas and I had to figure out what I could wear to look professional and ride a bike and not be super sweaty.

So I get there early to meet the, like, to let the sweat dry off and unfortunately, the client got there early too, and he introduced himself to me at the counter as my credit card was being declined for a $2 cup of coffee. So the worst part was. I thought that was the card that would work. I, I didn't wanna try another one because I thought if another one gets declined in front of [00:03:00] him, he's gonna know the truth.

Right? The gig is up. So I just lied and I was like, that's so weird. That's my debit card. I'm gonna have to call the bank. And then he paid for my coffee and I just remember feeling like a massive loser. And I called my dad for advice after, after this incident happened and he was like, look, do you think you're gonna be good at this someday?

And I thought, I think so. I think I could be good at this. And he's like, alright, then you have to do whatever it takes. So I opened another credit card. I bought internet leads, whatever that means in 2008 and hired my first business coach, which a lot of people say, I can't afford a coach. Well, I couldn't afford not to.

I mean, I was desperate. So I literally told the coach, I'm desperate, tell me what to do and I'll do it. And I just started muscling through the activity that they advised, right? Make the calls, write the notes, see the people, all the things. And it was fine. I started closing some deals and for the next several years I was doing fine.

I was getting by [00:04:00] and paying my bills. And then it was not until four years in, in 2011, someone gave me the book, the Go-Giver. And it was a complete paradigm shift. If, if anyone listening has not read the Go-Giver, I highly recommend it. It changed my life completely. And the idea is that there's go-getters, and that's what I had Ben, and that's what I was advised to be, which is do the work, make the calls, write the notes, see the people, to get leads, to get deals, to get money to, to solve my problem.

So everything felt really self-serving and there was just something missing. I couldn't put my finger on it. And then I read the Go-Giver and everything clicked. 'cause the concept is to be a value to people above and beyond what you get paid to do or. In our case be of value even when they don't need your services.

So I ended up developing a strategy that allowed me to find a way to be a resource to people even when they didn't need me, when they didn't need a mortgage, which made it a lot easier and a lot less [00:05:00] awkward to connect with people. Previously I was picking up the phone ' cause the coach said to do it and log it and track it and all the things, but the impetus of the call is because I'm supposed to ask for a referral.

And it just always felt really dreadful and just upstream energy. And then with the Go-Giver philosophy, I was like, okay, this makes sense for me. So long story short, is the business more than doubled going into 2012? And it sounds like a great problem to have, but I went from averaging like 30 some deals a year to doing nearly 80 pregnant with my second child and working 24 7.

And if anyone listening can relate, you know what it's like when you have your best month ever or your best year ever, but you're just exhausted and. Sometimes even resentful of your own success, like the phone never stops. And I almost quit the business. I thought, if this is what success looks like, I'm making more money than I ever thought I would.

But I don't have any time. I'm exhausted. I'm a shell of myself as a mom and a wife, and a [00:06:00] friend and a daughter, and all the things. So luckily someone gave me some advice to get some help and scale the business, and so I started learning how to scale. And all along the way, I just became passionate about teaching others what I was doing and found out I wasn't alone.

Like I wasn't alone when I was stressed about being financially broke and I wasn't alone, stressed and overwhelmed. And I felt like we all became self-employed in pursuit of freedom, the theoretically right freedom of flexibility. But I didn't feel free when my credit card was being declined, and I didn't feel free.

When I was tethered to my phone twenty four seven. So yeah, I just became obsessed with Pursuing Freedom, which became the name of, of my book and my podcast. So that's kind of the long story in, in a nutshell, a long answer to a short question.

No, it's great though. Thank you so much for sharing. And it's, it's fascinating to hear how there's, there's elements of just kind of falling in while you're very intentional. uh, a couple of things that resonated with me having, you know, [00:07:00] walked miles for 13 years in the same shoes is very much that like. Even when you reach, like you mentioned that best month that you had, you couldn't enjoy it. And like the, you couldn't even really appreciate the view from the mountaintop because you were looking down at your phone because of more business that you had to work on.

Yep. I.

I, I think that's amazing.

I like to drill down into some of that and get into what were some of the tangible things that you started doing that started paving the way, you know, those first steps? 'cause I find that people can get the concept and understand and buy in and know that that's what they desire and that's what they want to do.

And that's the life they want to create for themselves. But the first step is the toughest 'cause. People are

Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day, you know, we're recording this in 2025, and obviously the industry has been facing challenges the last couple years and a lot of lenders and real estate agents and real estate professionals have been struggling to sustain the consistency of their [00:08:00] business and their income.

That previously was easier when it was reigning loans in 20 20, 20 21, and when I talk to those who are thriving right now in this market. There's one common denominator. They're in massive amounts of conversation. They're having way more con, way more phone calls, more face-to-face, more activity, just more conversations.

And so I think at the end of the day, we can all agree this is a relationship business, and we can get distracted by shiny objects and technology and social media and all this stuff, all the push marketing. At the end of the day, if you really wanna be a value to somebody, you have to actually know what's going on with them.

And what I, what I realized is that the formula is the same. Make a certain amount, amount of calls, see the people, all the things we, we need to be in relationship with others. The resistance comes when the purpose behind the execution is to solve my problem, because I'm already starting in a negative state.

If [00:09:00] I'm panicking, if I'm looking at my pipeline drying up, if I'm looking at the interest rates, the, the news, the politics, all the noise around me, and I'm feeling overwhelmed in uncertainty. And I'm now gonna try to activate from this negative state of need and desperation. It's going to feel out of alignment no matter what.

Even if I muster up the courage to do it, it falls flat. Because oftentimes when we're so preoccupied about the problem we're trying to solve, which is a me problem, even if I pick up the phone and call you, I'm probably gonna be so quick to hang up and check that box and pat myself on the back that I usually miss the opportunity to actually be of value to you to find out what's going on with you.

So the gist of it is to replace my insecurity with curiosity and come from a place of if I needed nothing, okay, if I needed nothing, number one, how would I wanna feel? How would I imagine I would feel if I needed nothing? Number two, who would I wanna be of value to? And number [00:10:00] three, how will I know how to be of value to them without being in conversation?

So, so I take my work hat off, I take my agenda out of it. A lot of us won't make the call because we have a story. This client doesn't need to buy or sell or refinance because they got a rate of 3% and blah, blah, blah, right? We all have that narrative that keeps us out of engagement instead of into engagement.

And so I say to myself, if I needed nothing, let's assume they don't need my services. Let's find a way to be of value to them. So it started with contacting my sphere, my past clients, friends, et cetera, and saying, listen, I'm working on a project for my business, and I want you to think of me when you need anything, not just a mortgage.

So I'm building a referral directory of trusted local service providers, and I'm wondering who you refer and other industries that I should know and add to my directory. I want you to think of me as your old school Yellow Pages. And so I started calling friends and family. They would connect me to five star professionals that they [00:11:00] refer, and that could be anything from financial services to home contractors, health and wellness, et cetera.

And as I'm meeting these business owners, I'm looking to connect with people that are my vibe. You know, they wanna grow by referral. They get excited about collaborating and linking arms. If it's not that energy, no problem. Not my people. I'm gonna keep looking until I find them. So if, if I'm referred to a financial advisor that never calls me back, instead of being disappointed and letting that slow my momentum, I'm gonna keep making calls to my sphere to get connected with a number of financial advisors until I find one who's eager business by referral aligns with me, et cetera.

And then I'm gonna find a way to be a value to them. So you have to apply the Go-Giver philosophy to every interaction. How can I be of value to every person I meet today? And the best way I can describe this, and I get really passionate about. Not advising lenders to chase realtors. The whole antiquated approach of make 30 cold [00:12:00] calls and get them to have coffee with you and convince them to send you their loans is just so painful.

It's painful for the lender, it's painful for the realtor, and it's ineffective. Okay? Eventually it might work. It's quote unquote, it's a numbers game. But if it's not fun, it's not effective, why don't we try a different approach at the end of the day, whether it's the realtor or the financial advisor, or anybody else, one thing is for sure when he or she wakes up at three o'clock in the morning and can't fall back asleep.

I know they're not thinking about my pipeline. They're not thinking about my bank account. They're not thinking about my kids' college tuition. They are thinking about what they're worried about or what they're excited about or what they're working on. So regardless of whether I'm meeting a potential strategic partner or a person, a client, a potential, I mean, all strategic partners can become clients, by the way, when it's time for them to buy or refinance.

But I wanna get to the bottom of that 3:00 AM moment. So. As I'm building out this tribe of, of trusted local service providers, I'm gonna try to get, find, find a way to, to [00:13:00] be of value to them with what they're working on, what they're worried about or what they're excited about. And if I can do that, it typically looks like promoting them back to my entire database.

So now I'm becoming visible with resources. I'm training my database to think of me when they need anything, which certainly means I should be top of mind when they hear the word mortgage or whatever you do for a living. And any business owner can adopt this approach. Like I could be a photographer delivering your newborn wedding and family pho photos and say, Hey, think of me as more than a photographer if you need me.

Referrals. When you go to buy or sell a house, when you need a financial advisor, you know you're a young family, you're probably gonna need other resources. Contact me. I have a huge network, and you start training your clients to think of you and to come to you. And in the process, you're, you're expanding your network, you're bringing value to everyone you meet.

And there's a ripple effect that happens, and the business grows very quickly as a byproduct.

This is absolutely brilliant. You overcame the issue that you had there where it was like, I [00:14:00] don't wanna be asking and begging for business. You are creating that value in the relationships so that. It's not necessarily that you ask, they know and they come to you. having that culture kind of developed in your book of business with your clients and your, your referral partners too, it makes it much more natural exchange and a more comfortable, and everyone feels cared for and taken care of.

I couldn't help but think about empathy and so much of what you were saying because that's such a focus. You can't get to what's that 3:00 AM thing for them without being empathetic and understanding, really getting into what matters most to them so that then you can best align whatever it is, whether, right now we're talking about mortgages and in the real estate, so managing that process in the best way for them.

I actually have a, a picture hanging up in my office that's a couple laying awake in bed, and an artist did this in San Francisco when they're both like panicked, looking up at the ceiling. And one side it says, afraid the loan won't go [00:15:00] through. And then the other side says, afraid the loan will go through.

That's awesome.

goes to show you like, you know, um. There's, uh, you gotta understand that, you know, sometimes you have couples where there's different things mean different thing things to different people, and you have to kind of work that balance. Now there's one thing I wanna call out from what you mentioned, 'cause I'm fascinated and I agree, 1000% this re referral ecosystem.

Let's talk about it. How is it that it's 2025 and this ecosystem hasn't adopted yet to, like, what would make the most sense if you said to an alien who showed up and said, okay, in, in our society you buy a house, but you have to, if you're not paying cash for it, you need to take out a loan and there's a process. are you gonna call first? Oh, I'm gonna make sure I know what I can afford and the kind of loan and everything. that's not how it works. It seems like the real estate industry is still very much in like the old, like car sales, like fall in love with [00:16:00] the item, then we'll figure it out and then. Craziness ensues. Chaos. People are feeling they're taking advantage of the whole nine. Meanwhile, a more transparent approach is well start off, get the numbers in order, get your home in order, and then know what you're going to afford and let that guide the process. So because of the way it is right now, tell me how have you been able to navigate this?

Obviously what you've mentioned about creating yourself as a trusted advisor and like the go-to person is one way, 'cause you're already corresponding, but do you think there's a solution for this in, in general so that people know, like, let me make sure that I can afford this by the numbers first, as opposed to shopping for a home first?

Oh my gosh. Well, I think that's just a common theme is that the, the consumer typically calls the real estate agent first, right? And then we come in second, and this comes back to the thing I was. Alluding to earlier, which is my frustration around lenders [00:17:00] running their business, needing leads from realtors instead of leading with value with real estate agents.

What I've learned from a very early part of my career back in 20 11, 20 12, is when this strategy started working for me. And I started having conversations with real estate agents to say, talk to me about your business development strategy. Like how do you keep in touch with your past clients? And 95% of them admit that they don't keep in touch with their past clients because they have a fear of being seen as salesy.

And so I remember realizing, oh my gosh, we're not alone. And it may feel lonely, but every single self-employed person out there lays awake with the same hopes and dreams and worries and self-doubt and overwhelm and uncertainty and all the things. And if we could recognize that the job title doesn't really define us as human beings, we have all of this in common.

We're emotional creatures. And we're all self-employed, and so we have so much more in common. [00:18:00] And if, if lenders and could think about their database differently, then I need realtors. I need leads. First of all, if we're putting our livelihood in the hands of anybody other than ourselves, you're not really running a business, you're just hoping for the best.

And so there's a lot of time and money wasted and spent chasing agents or chasing the referral partners. I'm not saying we don't need referrals. We do, and there's an opportunity with our consumers to be direct to our database to build those relationships in such a way that they do come to us first, but that's on us to build that reputation and that brand with our clients to be known as the trusted advisor, not the person that the realtor told me to call.

That's, and, and this is a huge issue in our industry. There are so many loan officers that do not have. Any strategy around developing long lasting relationships and referrals with their past clients. And I'll tell you, we did an [00:19:00] experiment in 2019 for anyone who's listening that was in the business in 2018, you may remember that the rates went up.

And I would love to say that after my business more than doubled in 2012, that it was a straight line from there. But it wasn't, because I know many of us, when we hit that personal capacity and we experience burnout, the the first thing we try to do is suck it up and survive. We're so grateful to be making the money.

It's fine, it's fine, it's fine, but we're not fine. So a lot of people play the game and, and they put on the game face and they have their mask on and they're just giving from an empty well, and their loved ones know that they're not really present, but they're doing their best to just hold up this business they've created, right?

The second thing that happens, or the second option is people will shrink. Meaning your foot slips off the gas. You're growing your business. You hit your personal capacity. You're running out of time. You're running out of energy, enthusiasm. Your foot slips off the gas and you start to slow down again.

And we start to get on that rollercoaster of highs and lows, right? So it's like feast or famine, or we convince ourselves [00:20:00] we're better off with less business so we can have more life, and it doesn't really work that well either. And so all this to say is that it wasn't a straight line until I started putting systems in scale in place and hiring some people.

So when 2019 rolled around, I came into that year having experienced a significant decline in business. In 2018, the refi business had died temporarily. My p and LI was running my own profit and loss. I had my own branch at this point, and my p and l was in the red. And my company wanted me to do layoffs and I wasn't willing to do that because I had hired some of my good friends.

So I had to turn the ship around. So I decided I'm not gonna be like every lender out there chasing realtors. I realized the refi business has died, but I have my database and I'm going to apply the exact same strategy that I developed in 2011 to turn the ship around. So we start calling our past clients.

And finding ways to be of value to them and our clo and we tracked everything. And our goal was to increase our repeat and referral from past [00:21:00] client business rather than chasing realtors, which is what every other lender was doing. And so we went from three closings a month in January to nine closings a month in March to 17 closings a month by June.

And so we five x the volume in five months, and we took our repeat and referral from past client business from 22% in January to 50% in April. So we watched how quickly we could control the outcome of our business. And by the way, this was not by becoming a workaholic. Again, I worked, I skied 75 days that winter, and I took five weeks vacation that year.

And we, and we camped on the lake a total of probably six weeks that summer with the kids. I'm not about work becoming like the, the whalum, the bathtub with my life squished in around the edges. So it was strategic and it worked right. But the very scary statistic is that of all of our repeat clients, only 50% were working with the same realtor.

Now think of that about that. As a lender, [00:22:00] we've been told to chase realtors to get 'em to have a cup of coffee, to send us their deals, having no clue that some of them are losing 50% of their repeat clients because they don't have a process to keep in touch and to earn that repeat and referral business.

So it was a staggering statistic. I've actually heard that the average right now is that 12% of consumers use the same realtor twice. So again, as business owners, which is what we are for a hundred percent commission, do we have a strategy where we are in the driver's seat, where we can, where we can forecast predictable growth in our business, that we have a strategy that works, that doesn't feel salesy, it doesn't feel awkward, it doesn't feel forced, it's.

It's fun, it's enjoyable. We're building business with people we care about. We're we're being a resource to people when they need us, and we're staying top of mind as a result, and we can create predictable growth in our business without waiting for those around us to do it for us. [00:23:00] So, again, a long answer to a short question, but it's, it's fascinating to me because I feel like more, more lenders need to think this way, that we can't just hope for the best.

Fingers crossed, you know, there, it's really not hard. I, I mean, what do they say? It's simple but not easy.

Right, exactly. So it's like simple in concept,

I.

and execution. Like you have to figure it out. And I, I couldn't agree more. And quite frankly, I think that the industry's going to go in that direction where those who aren't doing this, they're not gonna be around. There was already a 50% plus attrition rate of the number of licensed loan originators when you compare, I think it was, um, 2022 to 2023, I think something like 40 some odd percent didn't renew their licenses and left the industry. So there's already big been a big attrition. I think time will tell if we see something like that in the real [00:24:00] estate. End of things. It's uh, we have a 12 month cycle for licensing and realtors have a two year cycle. So that's not gonna show in the data and we're not gonna get to see if that's what is going to wind up happening for realtors. But with August 14th and the implementation of the, uh, buyer agency across the country, and this was the new National Association of Realtors requirements, um, reserving any judgment or whatever's going on there, the practical implication is as a real estate agent, you need to be a professional. You need to be a real estate professional now,

Yeah,

an industry that you can be part-time, do a deal a year, and know what's going on.

There's changes that are continuing to happen. This buyer's agency just being one small, or not a small one, but one piece of it. And like you're mentioning that, that's a crazy number to know that realtors are losing that much of the business from the past clients that aren't coming back. That's

it's also an incredible opportunity for [00:25:00] lenders. So we ended up developing, we went to the Ninja selling training at the end of 2018, and they had this strategy with this like eight week touchpoint process with your pa. Like if you meet a new contact, that for eight weeks they get different touches. And we decided to develop something similar with real estate agents where we would alternate like an item of value, a gift with with a letter that would explain what sets us apart from the rest.

And we used that data. To articulate our intention, to honor and appreciate the sacrifice they make on nights and weekends, getting our clients under contract. And we recognize that when things go wrong, like the offer's not accepted or a buyer terminates on your listing or whatever, and it takes the wind outta your sails, you're not in the mood to make those past client calls or those database calls.

So our commitment is to do that on behalf of both of us, to make sure that this statistic never continues with our mutual [00:26:00] clients that, so we just started keeping in touch with the past clients and then when we would find out a life event was happening, like an engagement or a baby on the way, or a tragedy, or you know, a new puppy, or they lost their dog or whatever, we would then call the realtor and say, Hey, FYI, there's, you know, did you know, and give them a reason to call.

And then also because we had a little team in place, we had the bandwidth to be able to do more. And so we would say to the realtors, we bought this, we built this team for you, and we can split the cost of sending a gift. You know, we have to be respite compliant, but we're happy to handle it on behalf of both of us and make it from both of us if you want.

And so we also started asking for referrals for the agent. So maybe I'm on the phone with a past client and say, you know, I know how much Peter loved working with you and he may or may not have told you this, but his business is a hundred percent by referral. And I know if any of your friends or family have real estate questions, he would love to be a resource to them if they're anything like you.[00:27:00] 

And that became our commitment. And then just other value add things we did from contract to close and post-closing. And so we were able to show up as a lender, not asking for leads, but, but showing them this is our business development strategy. This is our commitment to you. And this is how we help you change that statistic for your future clients and past clients that they don't slip through the cracks because you didn't keep in touch.

And if you do keep in touch, great. We're doubling down. But if you don't like, we've got your back.

Incredible, incredibly brilliant approach to make it something that's not so much a referral but partnership,

Yep.

leveraging it as partnership. I. of these businesses you're running, you can kind of like, I guess another way to frame, frame it would be viewing the, your realtor partners, not so much as like a, a place to go and, and get, right,

Right?

about the Go gogi. Get to give, uh, what was the name of the book again?

That that book is called The Go-Giver and.

So along those lines, you know, you're working with this [00:28:00] agent and it's like you're approaching them like, look, I know my worth. I know I'm good at what I do. I want to be able to help you and your, your business as a partner. I don't want referrals from you.

I want to be able to work together with you. What can we do? How can I help support you and X, Y, or Z? And these are the things like you mentioned about following up and staying in front. Like I can help you. Protect yourself against being this statistic. You can stay in front, you can stay top of mind. And if you, and all also there's, there's just the simple fact of, you know, more hands, make less work if you get to approach the business with a realtor partner.

And it doesn't have to exclusively be that. I'm sure you've worked with financial advisors, as you mentioned, they're great referral partners as well. Treating those relationships like businesses in and of themselves that you're running together, gonna be able to accomplish way more than it just being, oh yeah, that didn't pan out with that client.

You sent my way, you know?

Yeah, and I, I wanna say full disclosure, you know, I, I started by saying I [00:29:00] was not the rookie of the year. Okay? I was on the struggle bus and I did not have a single realtor friend for the first four years I was in the business because I was so terrified of being seen a salesy that I just refuse to do any of the antiquated sales tactics around chasing realtors.

And that's an embarrassing thing to admit. But the reason is because when I first hired, when I hired my first business coach in 2008, it was actually a real estate agent coaching company. They later started coaching lenders, but at the time, they were only coaching realtors. And so they were training me as they would train a real estate agent, which was to work my database and work my sphere.

And so it wasn't until after I developed the strategy that allowed me to consistently double my business. And I started talking to agents and saying, Hey, like how, how's your business? 'cause this is how I've struggled. And then they would admit, I struggle with that too. And I would say, well, here's another way of looking at this, and then share the approach that was working for me.

So [00:30:00] I I, I just wanna point that out because I often think about like, if I could do this, anyone could do this. I was, I again, like I'm extroverted, but I, I really, I didn't even wanna tell my friends what I did for a living. That's how, that's how anti salesy I wanted to be. But as a result, I was like a secret agent and nobody knew what I did.

So therefore my business was, you know, slow. I'm just saying that it's, it's a complete paradigm shift to think about. What does it mean for me to be a value to every person I meet today? And I started listening to real estate podcasts, listening books, written by realtors for realtors. And I would share the books, I would share the podcast episodes.

I would text people, podcasts and say, listen to this guy from New Jersey. He's got an incredible strategy, this real estate agent in New Jersey. What if we do this with our clients, like leading with value? Because at the end of the day, we really wanna show up for people in what I refer to as that 3:00 AM moment.

What are they excited about? What are they worried about? What are they working on? And if you [00:31:00] can break it down to the human level with every person you have the opportunity to connect with and get curious about that 3:00 AM moment or just get curious about how, how they're doing in life, what stage of life are they navigating and get creative on how to be a value, you really cannot fail.

And that is, that is the number one common denominator of those who are literally having their best year ever. Right now in 2025, I have coaching clients that. Are doubling their business, and last year was their best year ever. So if someone out there is having their best year ever, any of us could be having our best year ever.

And if the common denominator is more conversations and find a way to be of value, let's just simplify success and double down on that.

Amazing. And when it comes to simplifying success, what are some key, key points that people can start getting into? A habit of thought or the mindset of when it comes to simple habits or routines and things like that?

Well, the [00:32:00] schedule is everything. And it's probably the biggest challenge that most of us face because if you come from a job where the boss told you what time to be at work and what to do, and as long as you go to work on time and do what's expected of you, you're gonna get paid consistently, right?

That's the expectation. But we're also expecting that the business owner or the manager has a business plan for profitability. They've hired you under this. Expectation, right? And then we become self-employed and we have all this free time, and we don't have a schedule and we don't have a plan. And we, we don't have a strategy that feels aligned with who we are and our personality and our interest and our stage of life.

And so we're throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. We don't know when we have permission to turn off. So we just don't. And we develop these terrible habits that ultimately become the albatross when business is coming in, because we've developed habits around not having an off switch being tethered to our phone from when we wake up, until we fall asleep.

And it's not [00:33:00] sustainable. So it leads to exhaustion and burnout. And then that leads to the business drying up. And then you're on the rollercoaster and, and we, we've all been there this like highs and lows, right? And the truth of the matter is that the goal is, is to have a simple schedule, a simple plan that matches your personality, your talents, your gifts, your interests, et cetera.

And that you protect that time. To do the things that move the needle to the results you want in your business. You have to protect it like your life depends on it because it does, because your business depends on it, and your business fuels your life. That's the goal. The goal is to have a business that fuels and finances your life dreams, your epic adventures that you daydream about, the freedom and flexibility and all the things, right?

And so, as silly as it sounds, it starts with when, right? We've all been given the playbook. What, what to do, what to do. But then we wake up in the morning and it's like, what could I do today? What should I do today? And we're looking at that problem we're trying to solve and our energy is low, and then we're [00:34:00] mustering up courage to pick up the phone and do the things.

And even just the decision making every day is energy draining. And energy is the thing that affects everything. It affects your consistency of execution. It it affects your. Your effectiveness of execution, right? Like if you're low vibe, low light, and you're just checking boxes, you're not gonna get great results.

If you're fired up and excited, you become like a magnet. Like a lighthouse in the storm, and the ships are coming to port, right? And so I like to have a plan where I know what Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday look like. And I know what containers of time are reserved for creating momentum in my business so that I can plan the epic life adventures I have for myself, right?

And I want, I want it to feel like a science, like a recipe for success. I always say to my coaching clients like, you know, you think about that. If you were to take a job because you want a steady paycheck, it's because you're trusting the business owner has that [00:35:00] plan for profitability. And so the question is, would you trust you the way you're running your business?

Would you trust you to have consistent, predictable growth and your income and have the energy and the enthusiasm, the time to love your life? You know? And if not. It's some minor tweaks at the foundational level to create a foundation that's strong enough to hold the growth of the business that you desire and deserve.

Totally. And it's these minor tweaks that wind up actually creating this totally new structure. Almost. I recognizable, but you, what you me mentioned about, you know, taking a salaried position. Yeah. You are taking, you're offloading risk. That's the way that I see it. Ever since I was younger and coming through college, I saw it as, no, I'm offloading the risk.

If I'm gonna take a job somewhere and get a W2 pay stub, I'm offloading that risk that yes, they know what's profitable. I have a role in function, I'm gonna fill that role in function and I'm gonna be compensated for that. But they're gonna always tell me how much my worth is and they're always gonna be able to tell me when and what. And I reached [00:36:00] a point when I was in college where I was like, no, I think I'm gonna trust myself more. I'm gonna learn to trust myself more on this. That's, and I also happened to grow, I'm second generation in the mortgage industry, so I grew up around it. And I saw my father, who's an immigrant from Italy and like. Talk about working a fruit stand all the way up to being a very successful loan originator pre 2008. And then afterward, he, um, he started his own branch operation in 2008 when it was all falling apart. And like that turned out to be a great, um, part of the resume because look, we were here, but all of this to come back around to the main point of having this realization that yes, you can go somewhere and work, but like you mentioned, you're following their lead and their business plan.

So if you're going to take a sales role, commission only, you are the arbiter of the value your time. Well, you manage yourself in time. I was talking recently, um, at, at one of my meetings, uh, that I run for networking. That was like, there's no such thing as time management. There's only managing yourself in time. [00:37:00] Create that distinction because it comes and goes. But like you were mentioning, your life depends on it. Block the time, commit the time to the activity and the things that you know are keeping the momentum going in your business, which I think is words worth gold,

Yeah, I mean, it's a non-negotiable. I mean, there's, someone was on my podcast one time and she said after 10 years of being a workaholic, working twenty four seven tethered to my phone at my kids' sporting events, all the things, I realized that my actions were not a reflection of my true priorities. So if someone says to me, I wanna grow my business, I say, tell me about your execution.

What did tell me? Like, rattle off your formula. If there's no formula and you're winging it, but expecting different results, you're not gonna see different results. So we need to just, again, it's, it is [00:38:00] really about simplifying and I have found that a couple hours a day, a couple days a week of non-negotiable, protected, pretending as if I'm in a client meeting, where if I was in this meeting right now with you, I'm not looking at my phone.

I'm not letting inbound alerts and text messages and emails to interrupt my ability to be present here with yous, which means I'm capable of being fully present and not distracted, but I check. But it's a challenge to do it for ourselves, and I think that the success, most successful business owners understand the power of slowing down in order to speed up spending time on those non-negotiables, having your actions reflect the priorities.

If you wanna grow your business, prove it with your actions. That's it. But it seems. Challenging, but it's only because there's constantly dis distractions and interruptions. And I always say it is not the external world's job to stop that. It's never gonna stop. You're never gonna [00:39:00] stop having inbound alerts popping up on your phone.

So it's not their job to grab your hand and put the phone out of the way and, and put you in the zone of doing what is gonna get you the results that you say are your priorities. It's up to us. And it's the biggest work of all frankly, is the in is the inside game is is the biggest work of all, is recognizing where we are.

We are behaving out of alignment with the priority we say, and the willingness to take back the wheel and say, I'm not going to give away my energy and attention to the external world's agendas. I'm gonna drive this bus. I'm not a passenger, I'm a driver. And if we wanna be successful in business, we have to be driving it.

We can't be waiting for others to drive for us.

Right. And when it comes to that, did you notice anything? Like, do you have any practices that you, that you do like, um, you know, do you take, do you flip your phone upside down when you have dedicated time that you wanna focus on this task? Like, have you done any practical things that would be helpful for people listening?

[00:40:00] Yeah. So I think discernment is a talent that can be developed as a business owner. And what I mean by that is many of us are guilty of rolling over in the morning and looking at our phone if it's our alarm clock, and then finding ourselves in the rabbit hole of emails and social media, text messages, et cetera.

And like I said, that's just allowing energy, attention, and sometime emotion even to be hijacked before our feet have even hit the floor. So the first thing I started doing to force myself to stop doing that is in the evening, turn off. Access on my phone. So actually go into the settings, go into my mail and toggle it off, because I'm gonna have a compulsion to click that icon.

Even if there's no number alerting me to unread messages, I'm still gonna click it because I'm, you know, sociopath like most of us. And so I'm clicking on that icon and when I do, there's nothing there. And it's forcing me to remember, [00:41:00] not right now. Okay. So that is one thing, and that gives people anxiety because they think, what if I missed something?

So the next thing I do is set an out of office responder. And all it says is, you know, thank you so much for your email. Please note this inbox is not being monitored at the moment because I'm in appointments with other clients for urgent matters. Please text me at this number. Text me or call me at this number.

Otherwise, I'll respond to this email within, fill in the blanks, right? 24 hours or before the end of business or whatever. So now I'm managing the expectation of the email sender. And when I started doing that, to create a protection of my attention in the mornings, to prepare myself to be a peak performer throughout the day when I'm ready to give myself away to the external world, I noticed something is that, you know, how many text messages I got for urgent matters?

When someone got that out of office responder to the email, they sent me zero

Oh,

because they didn't, it wasn't urgent. If it was [00:42:00] urgent, they already would've called me and then they would've texted me. An email would be the last resort. Nobody sends an email for an urgent matter. So my clients had to show me that they have more discernment around what's urgent than I did.

I was treating on-time sensitive items as more urgent because I was in fear, I was anxious. And so our fear drives this reactivity of let me drop everything and bounce because oh my gosh, there's an opportunity. And so we, we pivot from. Business development to customer service, business development, customer service.

And so if your business is dried up and your only focus is, how do I bring in more business? And then you get a lead and you say few, and then we drop what we were doing to go service the lead and convert the lead and then get them, you know, under contract into the closing table. And we put all of our attention on that.

Then all the momentum we were creating with our business development activity comes to a screeching halt. And inevitably we close a couple deals and then we look and our pipelines [00:43:00] dried up. And so people think that that's just the nature of the business. It's not, it's the nature of us as human beings.

And that's where systems and scale come into play, because there are ways to keep that momentum going with 80 to 90% of your business development activity can be handled by somebody else. And if that's happening with a hundred percent consistency, even while you're serving clients. You're not gonna have this feast or famine, you're gonna have a consistent lead flow coming in, and your job is to handle those leads while somebody else's job is to keep that momentum going so that the leads keep coming in the door.

So it's just, it's interesting because I did have to force myself with those little, you know, activities of turning off my email access, setting the outof office responder, protecting my time in the morning to prepare myself to be peak energy focus, enthusiasm, right? I wanna be present with my clients and with my family as well.

And as a result, I learned that emails were never [00:44:00] time sensitive. I was just treating them as time sensitive. And, uh, it just then from that point forward, now I can scan my inbox and I can determine if something is actually urgent and choose to respond to it. Or I can scan my inbox for action items and put them on a list for later on in the day when I handle my email.

But there's discernment there. That's all.

Yeah. You're making your judgment calls, you're reviewing it, and you're seeing the priorities of other people and their alignment to yours and putting, putting that in the proper order. Right.

Yep,

That's amazing. And, and when it comes to kind of what the whole theme that I keep gathering here is kind of like my best friend Dave, uh, who's a partner with me in the networking company.

He says there's two things that he says Every meeting, structure and discipline. If you are a business owner or a sales professional, that's it. is great. Catch the wave when you can. But the two things that always, it's the structure and the discipline to follow [00:45:00] the structure.

a hundred percent. And the funny thing about that structure piece is that I mentioned earlier, I'm a free spirit, so I thought. Self-employment. I can do what I want. I don't need a boss telling me what to do. I'm gonna be footloose and fancy free freedom and flexibility, all the things. And then, you know, we know how that story played out.

So I did not embrace structure. I'm actually embarrassed to admit I did not embrace structure and systems until way too late in my career. I probably, I rolled that rollercoaster of Feast of Famine probably seven or eight years before I realized I was my own bottleneck. And so I started to put the systems in place and implement some structure and some boundaries.

And a simple schedule. A simple schedule. I don't wanna be time blocked from the moment I wake up to the moment I fall asleep. 'cause that feels suffocating, right? But I thought structure was gonna be suffocating. It's not. Structure is where freedom is because it's measurable. It creates predictable results.

And when I'm done, I'm [00:46:00] done. So I'm liberated. And the thing is that you can't do lead generating activity. And then expect money in the bank tomorrow. But what we can do is we can do lead generating activity and we can watch that with consistency. Our leads start to increase, and our leads are telling us where our closings are gonna be in 60 to 90 days, which means we have time to put a stronger foundation in place if we need to enlist the help of somebody else, if we need a loan officer assistant or a marketing assistant, or anybody to help us with our business.

We have time because we see the leads coming in. We are forecasting the future of our business with that. And so that, again, it all comes back to just simplicity. It's like a simple schedule. A couple days a week, a couple hours a day. I watch the correlation between this activity brings me this result.

When I see the leads coming in, I can start planning for success. I can expect it and I can plan for it. And that's the biggest mistake I made early on is that I didn't expect it. So I got blindsided by it. I burned out. I dried my pipeline, dried up, I panicked, right? Put my foot on the gas, burned [00:47:00] out. It was a cycle.

And the only way outta that cycle is to acknowledge where we are, the bottleneck and where we are operating, inefficiently and just small tweaks to address it. And now you've strengthened the foundation to move past that plateau and take your business and life to new levels.

And what you were mentioning about the bottleneck, that's like this revelation that we all can benefit from. Like looking at what, what's going on and especially in, in the industries that we're in, like making the first step be where am I the problem creating the reality and the business that I know I'm capable of doing having that approach.

Because your revelation, as long as it came into your career, as far into the career as it came, there are people who go their whole careers 20, 30 years. And I'll just speak to the mortgage industry 'cause that's the one that I know best. They grew the whole career riding that rollercoaster and just hang on with fingernails and fingertips.

And then they get themselves [00:48:00] up and they're at the top of the mountain and it's like, oh, sunshine always now and then all of a sudden, no, it's not how this goes cyclical, but the things that we can do are what you're mentioning, like creating the freedom, being in the limit. Right? Isn't that funny how that kind of

Yep.

Like the limitation or self imposing the limitation to create the time and the freedom, know, you're sacrificing it now. No, no. Your whole day can't be free and just go for it. You know, like you were mentioning about the being free spirit. You can't do that. To have consistent results in a, a successful business. So I think that it's absolutely incredible this at yourself like, how can I optimize here? How can I create this system and in a way that can create the accountability for myself and the results that I know I, I want, I desire, I need, whatever it may be.

Yeah. It's also wild looking back because [00:49:00] those first seven or eight years, what I noticed is when I would start to approach about 18 million in volume and I, and I've, and so as a loan officer, let's say 180,000 to 200,000 a year. Earning way more than I ever imagined. You know, previously teaching English in Spain, teaching Spanish, uh, bartending, you know, I wasn't, I I was exceeding the expectations of my younger self.

And what I noticed is that was my breaking point. I couldn't break through that plateau. And when I would ask people in my company that were ahead of me in the game maybe doing 30 million, how are they doing it? This was back in 2012 and they all admitted that they work until 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night.

And I remember coming back to my husband, I mentioned I was pregnant with my second child, and I said to him, I don't think I'm cut out for this, because if working till 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night is the solution or is sort of the, uh, requirement of [00:50:00] success, financial success, which is one piece of the puzzle.

I don't think this is for me, like that's not what I signed up for. Why would I wanna grow to 30 million? If that's what it looks like, I'm already a hot mess, right? Yeah. I'm like, I'm already a hot mess at 18 to 20 million. So I look back then when I, once I started enlisting the help of others and amazing people that are really talented and enjoy aspects of the business that are not my zone of genius, and frankly, I was forcing myself to be great at everything because I care enough about the client experience and things going well, that I was trying to become a perfectionist.

Even though that I'm not necessarily an A type by nature, I'm more of, you know, big picture, visionary, creative. I'm not necessarily great at systems, but I, I had to learn to develop systems to ensure that I didn't let my clients down, right? With the whole mortgage experience. And so in hindsight, as I started to fire myself from the things that I didn't really actually enjoy and I wasn't frankly that good at and [00:51:00] enlisted the help of those who are great at it, and then our business more than doubled, it became so obvious, and I've seen this a lot with realtors and lenders that.

Uh, when their income starts approaching 1 75, even though for realtors that's a different amount of volume because the comp plan is different and everything else, but around that income threshold and pushing up to 250,000, I've had so many people say to me, I can't seem to break that plateau. I really wanna make 3 75, for example, but I can't seem to break through the ceiling.

And it's like, that's because there is a limit to your time, energy, and enthusiasm. And when I look back to where in, in 2020, we did a six month RV road trip and we homeschooled our kids, um, which I thought, well, this is gonna put me outta business, right? Like, people are gonna think I've peaced out. And it didn't.

But in hindsight, our business grew that year from 43 million to 60 million. And obviously it was a refi boom and that's great, but I was only working maybe 15 [00:52:00] to 20 hours a week in my business and I look back and realize I had more energy, more time, more present moments. Than ever before in my career, while working way less and doing triple the volume of what had been sucking the life out of me in 2012.

And honestly again in 2013 and 14, 'cause it wasn't until 2014 that I finally started implementing systems and support. And that's where it started to unlock the ability to start to have exponential growth where I could actually work less and I could have more energy, more clarity, more focus, more impact, more growth, and more fun.

I mean, honestly, more fun. And isn't that why we became self-employed? It's not like this isn't the easy route. We all know that. And so if our work is just a constant state of uncertainty and stress and worry and overwhelm and burnout and we're, we're thinking someday I'm gonna have this elusive freedom and flexibility.

No, we have to claim it, [00:53:00] but it is available. And I if again, if I, if I could do it. So can anybody else, but, but you have to push through. A lot of, you have to push through and make decisions in spite of fear all the time. 'cause the fear doesn't go away. We're always on the leading edge of something that feels like, well, this sounds like a great idea, but I'm terrified this may.

What if it goes wrong? What if I fail? What if I, my business slows down. I mean, we're always gonna be paralyzed by those, by that chatter in our brain, but if we let it be the reason we don't try, then we stay in the cycle of uncertainty and stress and overwhelm and burnout. It doesn't, it doesn't have to be that way.

So I think that's what's interesting because I look back where it's like I just kept hitting my head against that ceiling and then I'd run outta steam and then my business would slow down and then I'd panic, and then I'd put my foot on the gas and hit my head, run out of steam. You know, it was just never ending.

And to your point, some people will live their whole career like that, and I don't think that's what we signed up for. So if our reality doesn't match the vision we have when we [00:54:00] started. Why not take the easy route and go work for somebody else? You know, like it. So, I don't know. I.

what happens. Like you look at people in my, in our industry and also in the real estate industry, realtors that wind up picking up other jobs, and then when there's a boom, they come back and it's that kind of life cycle. But, e exactly like you're saying. Like it's, you have to take the ownership and lead it, you the things that are the high value, um, and, and are going to generate the results, also is not a solution or a formula. just, you have it set and then you're done. There are base concepts, but it always requires adjustment and pivoting and like you mentioned earlier on about, you know, that financial advisor that doesn't return your calls and you can get bummed out about it, or you could just pivot and just see that as well.

That's not obviously gonna be the fruitful, you know, thing and it's not gonna be the fruitful endeavor right now. And I, it's come up so much and I keep [00:55:00] rattling around my brain, I'm not gonna get it right. But there's like the Nietzsche quote, which is like a person who knows their why can handle any what or how,

Hmm.

If we're, and I, you know, like you, I listen to a lot of real estate investing podcast and motivational podcasts and I've worked with some coaches in the past and you know what, what comes through across it all is that no matter how difficult, 'cause businesses get tough, it's the nature of things, they're not always gonna be easy.

And if they're always easy, look out because they're going to not be easy. And it's gonna be really bad at some point. You know, for the most part, this is the balance of how things work, but if we can understand why we're doing what we're doing, know what our value is, beyond the shade of a doubt, you, you can manage all of these things.

It's not to say that fear won't be there, but that is the fuel that's going to get you over that hump of the fear that's stopping you from just picking up the phone and calling,

Yep.

and doing those little things. I can say I [00:56:00] started calling past clients and one of the experiences I had was Erin. I felt amazing, not because I was getting business in, I felt great talking to my clients and I was like, how dare I, I felt like an idiot.

I was like, dude, struggling through trying to do all these things and cultivate new relationships and stuff. Like the people that you've helped are the best people to reach out to because they already know I. How well you can do what you do. And was fun. I got to catch up, I got to hear about life.

I got to hear, there were some clients I haven't talked to and I'm ashamed of, but some of them I didn't talk to for probably about a year. I would at least try one touch point a year. I've changed my strategy now, but you know, I once a year and so I talked to them and it was like, yeah, I was able to connect them with a painter.

I was able to connect them one with an environmental partner that I work with, and like, getting to help and be valuable to my partners too. it was just like, this is amazing. And I felt good. Like at the end of the day for me it was like, [00:57:00] I am making a difference for people. Like I'm helping them. They're, they're living in this home that like, I got to, like, that's my why. That's why I got into what I did. Uh,

Yeah.

why I do what I do. You get to be part of that. Sometimes it's the only long term commitment some people make in their lives. That's besides the point. But you know, you're involved in that process and guiding them through providing value and educating them.

I love it.

Yeah. It's funny too because when I'm talking with coaching clients and they say, you know, oh, I'm the worst at keeping in touch with my past clients. I hate, I just, I feel so salesy. I don't know what to say. They don't need to buy or sell. And I, first thing I say is, well, that's a you problem,

Love it.

so stop thinking so much about yourself.

It's like, oh, congratulations. That is all up to you

And the second thing is, what is more salesy? You had a natural connection with your client from the pre-approval phase through under [00:58:00] contract to closing. You made a new friend, basically, right? This, I mean, that's not all of our clients, but it is a good percentage of them. And then you got paid. Never talk to them again.

Or you call 'em and say, oh my God, your name just popped up in my phone. Or I was going through my files and I, and I saw your name and I realized I haven't talked to you. I'm so embarrassed. I can't believe it's already been two years. You're one of my favorite clients, and I am so sorry. I've lost touch.

Like, how the heck are you? How's the home? How's life? How are the kids? Da da da. Like, what's more salesy to get paid and never talk to them again? Or just be honest. I'm sorry, I lost touch. I, I used to joke, like, tell, go. Anyone listening, go into your database and make a list of all the people that bring a smile to your face and tell them.

I was listening to some crazy lady from Colorado on a podcast, and she said to pick up the phone and call all my favorite people. And you were the one of the first people that came to mind. Is that salesy? No, it's [00:59:00] genuine. And by the way, you're right. It's actually fun. You actually can stay connected with people that bring a smile to your face.

You can find a way to be a resource to them. At a minimum, you can just catch up and it's nice to talk to you again. And it's good to hear your voice, and I'm so glad to hear everything's going well, or I'm so sorry to hear about such and such. It's, it is not that hard, but it create, the paralysis comes from being, we're thinking about ourselves and we're thinking about our problem.

We're thinking they don't need us right now. And it's like, you're right. So stop thinking about yourself. Take your work hat off. Come from a place of curiosity. Find a way to be of value. It's, there's no end in sight. Then you've got a snowball gaining momentum, and all of a sudden your business is picking up seemingly outta the blue.

Not because you called this person, but because you showed up, because the light came on within you. And when the light is on, it's like vacation energy. You know, you go on vacation and your phone rings and it's so annoying. It's because your vacation energy, you got, you're excited, your light is on. And it's like, so we gotta curate the vacation energy from the inside out [01:00:00] with not, with no need, no desperation, no agenda.

Just do it because you care about people. You, you cannot be stopped. That's your motive. That's it.

Yeah, that's awesome. And I like that as kind of like our closing thought. 'cause if we're gonna share anything for everyone today, that closing thought, find someone in your database. If you're a, if you're a sales professional out there in real estate or mortgage, call to action today. Find someone in your database.

Give 'em a call. Let 'em know you're thinking about 'em. And watch, I've been a beneficiary of that myself and that is advice, truly. So Erin, thank you so much for your time and, and sharing your insights. Before we go, tell everybody where they can find you, where they can listen to you, your book, everything.

Sure. So everything is pursuing Freedom on Instagram. It's pursuing Freedom Official. The book is Pursuing Freedom. The website's pursuing freedom.com. There's actually a free five step guide to more referrals on the website. It's basically the Cliff notes, if anybody [01:01:00] remembers what those were. Now it's chat, GPT, but it's, it is, uh, the abbreviated version of the book.

It's free. And you're welcome to go download that, but it takes you through the five steps of clarifying what you want, who you wanna work with, how to be a value to them. It even provides scripts to make it easy, um, not cheesy. And it's very, very effective. I had a lender in my community, which is called the Collective.

It's just a national community of realtors and lenders. We meet a couple times a week in ma in a high level mastermind, and the majority of my clients are, are thriving right now because we're simplifying success. We're having fun doing it. And one of the lenders applied that strategy and within two weeks he had 17 new referrals and he was in a, a bit of a slump when we connected.

And, and a lot of people are in a slump right now. That's okay. I heard something recently. I loved it. It was about, if you can imagine, your life is a journey of ascension going up, right? Like, imagine you're climbing a mountain if you've ever climbed a mountain. I live in the mountains in Colorado, so I climb a lot of [01:02:00] mountains.

You could be going up the mountain, but there's a, there are times where there's a little bit of a valley, there's a dip. And sometimes specifically in the market we've been in in this climate the last couple years, people can feel like they're in a valley. Like they feel despair and darkness and not sure how we're gonna get out of this.

And at the end of the day, you're still at a higher elevation than you were when you started. You. You have a mast enough relationships and skills and experience, and you've lived enough life to be uniquely equipped to be a resource to somebody else. Going through something right now that is enough to build a business around and it can be really fun and interesting to kind of take the house down to the studs and really evaluate the future of your business as something you wanna design and have fun running towards, rather than looking backwards where you came from and saying, I need to go back.

I need to go back to the fundamentals. Back to the basics. It's like, not necessarily because you're not the same person you were when you started. [01:03:00] We wanna look forward with eager anticipation of where we're headed. And the valley doesn't define us. So it's never a straight line. I, I, I feel like I've fallen on my face enough times to know that if I fall on my face again, it won't be the first time.

It won't be the last time. And I have the tools right? And as long as I put myself in the room with other people that are looking ahead with eager anticipation, we're gonna rise together. We're gonna go places together. And there's magic in that. So I just don't want anyone thinking that there's nothing special about anyone who's thriving right now, other than their decision to do it.

And if you get in the room with them, you'll find out about the times that they've scraped their knees or knocked their teeth out, you know, getting to where they are now. And it's there to remind us that we all have it within us to make a decision anytime, to say, all right, I've been in a valley, I've been in despair.

I don't like it here, so what am I gonna do about it? I'm gonna, I'm gonna [01:04:00] find the room where people are, are stepping up and I'm gonna, I'm gonna step up with them. It's just, I don't know. It's powerful.

Right on. love it. Powerful. That is such a powerful approach and mentality. Thank you so much for sharing, Erin. And thank you for being on. Uh, for everybody listening, please follow Erin's show, pursuing Freedom. Check out her book. Uh, I'll be back with an update next week on our mortgage rates, what's going on in the economy and the market.

And stay tuned for the mortgage Mondays where we're gonna keep diving into mortgage facts and information. In the meantime, have a great rest of your week and take good care.